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[00:00:17] Vicki LaBrosse: Welcome back to another episode of Edge Unscripted. I am Vicki LaBrosse with Edge Marketing, and I do our media relations side of the business, and I’m joined today by my friend and industry colleague, Steve Salkin. Steve is with law.com and is the editor in chief of Many Law Journal newsletters.
Steve, thanks so much for being on today.
[00:00:43] Steve Salkin: My pleasure, Vic, how are you today?
[00:00:45] VL: I’m doing great. We are starting off on a Monday, fresh from the weekend, ready to dive into all fun PR and marketing topics.
[00:00:55] SS: So it’s a good day to do it because we get it inundated over the weekend, as you probably know.
[00:01:01] VL: So absolutely.
[00:01:01] SS: Monday mornings are sorting through a lot of emails, 90% of which. Get deleted, but Absolutely. We probably knew that Tooly. Absolutely.
[00:01:11] VL: Well, you and I just got back from one of our biggest industry conferences, and of course the buzz like it has been for the last three years has been ai, ai, ai.
But my biggest takeaway from that was on the human intelligence piece and how it is important to still keep the human in the loop, or as we heard over some of our conversations, the expert in the loop. And so I wanted, it inspired me to talk, to, write an article and to talk to you today about why relationships really matter.
Within our space. And it’s not something that AI can do for you or it shouldn’t be something that it’s doing for you. Relationships need to evolve organically. We’re gonna be talking about the whole new media landscape, why relationships matter. And so let’s just talk about how us PR professionals, we PR professionals we’re always trying to get in front of you, editors and journalists, and we don’t always stop to ask.
I’m guilty of this from time to time. What actually makes you pay attention. And so we’re gonna flip the perspective a little bit today. So Steve, you sit on the other side of this every day. What’s changed most in how you evaluate pitches and sources? And people like me,
[00:02:34] SS: there are just so many more outlets that are trying to get your attention.
So that’s changed a lot because you get, if it’s possible, more pitches than before. And a lot of them, and we’ll get to this as we get further into our discussion, but a lot of them are just very surface and just kind of. It feels like there’s throwing, throwing it out there against whoever they can find and hoping it’ll stick with somebody.
So there’s no attempted relationship building. There’s just, you know, this happened. Let me know if you’re covering it pretty much, and just, it’s a lot of that.
[00:03:06] VL: Okay. Okay. Well let’s talk about the fragmented media landscape for a minute or two here. So, from your seat as an editor, how has the expansion of media channels changed and like, what makes it onto your radar?
[00:03:22] SS: Most of the pitches I get from the expansion of media channels are too basic for what we do. It’s just a lot of the same thing and it, there’s no, nothing unique about it. There’s no fresh perspective, there’s no analysis to it, which is what we do. So, you know, we may be a little different than some other media publishing outlets with the newsletters because we are a little more analytical than your typical just straight news.
So for me at least with that, ang with that perspective it just give me a basic thing that happened isn’t really helping me.
[00:03:54] VL: Got it. Got it. So, you have a lot of sources that are competing for your attention. How do you decide what is worth covering then?
[00:04:02] SS: It’s a fresh perspective. It’s a unique angle.
Um, it’s analysis and we write colleague to colleagues. So for the, for instance, for the marketing law firm newsletter, which you folks thankfully contribute to, you’re talking to fellow marketers and so speak to them like you would speak to a fellow marketer and it’s, if it’s an issue my. Saying to everybody who writes for us is, if you think this is an issue and you’re having this issue, or you come across this case, or whatever industry it is, whatever practice area it is, there’s a good bet that somebody else is also facing that same issue, has seen that case, and is wondering how it’s gonna affect how you practice.
So just come at it with that perspective and that’s what I’d like. That’s what we like to do. Colleague to colleague. You’re talking to people who are in this with you day to day. Let’s talk about what’s going on.
[00:04:51] VL: Got it. Got it. That makes a lot of sense and kind of leads into my next topic or question about, you know, so many companies today wanna be in Forbes and the New York Times and Wall Street Journal because they think it like carries some sort of clout and it does.
It’s a cool PR piece, but are your. Clients and prospects really reading that for the intel that you want them to be getting. And so do you think, and I know the answer to this, but I’d love your perspective. The niche publications, like the Law Journal newsletters carry a different influence than broader outlets, which of course I do.
But outside of that, do you think that there’s still a lot of value in trade publications and those types of niche outlets?
[00:05:38] SS: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I have to, right. But beside, beside that, , I actually do think they do because again, it’s that colleague to colleague, uh, relationship that, that discussion that’s going on, nobody knows the insides and outs of your day-to-day than people who, than other, than more than people who do it also.
So you’re not gonna get that in Forbes, New York Times. You’re gonna get an overview, you’re gonna get a sketch of what’s going on. You’re not gonna get the analysis and the, you know, this is what it means to you, and this is how we can overcome it or how we can deal with it kind of perspective.
[00:06:10] VL: That makes sense, right? You can do a little bit of a deeper dive and actually consume more meaningful content, not just the surfacey stuff that you sometimes get in those larger outlets. So let’s talk about what trust looks like to an editor as yourself. When you think about PR professionals, you trust this girl.
What, what do I, Steve? No. What do we consistently do, right? Or, well, what, what helps with that trust piece?
[00:06:38] SS: You and the others who I trust. Not the only ones, but they are the best ones. Kidding. Um, keep me posted on what’s going on with your clients. It may not be anything to write about right now.
It may not be anything to write about ever, but just keep me posted and don’t you know it, it’s hard to. Quantify to not be pushy, but be persistent at the same time. It’s kind of a hard line to toe, but if you keep me, if you just keep me informed and say, Hey, look, if you’re covering any of this we have somebody for you, our client’s doing this or, and sometimes that even results in an issue I didn’t even know was happening.
So, you know, a lot of times I think what you do. That’s helpful is put in what this person might be covering or what this development with your client means and what the angle would be for a potential story. Because I may not see it. And if you put point it out, I may be, oh, okay, maybe we can work with that, or we can workshop it together to come up with something.
And again, maybe not today, maybe not for next month, but maybe two months down the line or something else happens that’s related and then we can go back to it. So just kind of, keep the line of communication open and. Not be, again, it’s hard to lineate the difference between being pushy and persistent.
But it’s there and you can tell.
[00:07:51] VL: Oh, we’ll be talking about that. Well, and I think too, you know, credibility versus just another pitch. A lot of times, we have so much, both of us have so much on our plates that we’re, I feel like I’m just pitching you all the time, but you and I have a long, well established relationship.
However, I do think. That’s a great point that PR professionals need to build that relationship. And it’s not always about the ask. It’s about, Hey Steve, I saw that you covered this in cybersecurity law and strategy. I have a client that could maybe offer this angle to it. And again, like you said, it doesn’t need to be tomorrow, but it’s just something to keep on the back burner.
And to me, that’s the give and take of the relationship,
[00:08:34] SS: right. And anytime you take out a new client, let me know and say. This is what this company does, this is what this client does. If you think there’s a fit here, I can introduce you to so and so, kinda a brief chat and maybe we can get something together.
So sure it all ties in together to that point.
[00:08:50] VL: Sure. Is it pretty easy for you to quickly decipher if somebody really understands your audience when they reach out to you?
[00:08:59] SS: 2.9 seconds I wrote down to your oh, 2.9 seconds. And
how,
like,
[00:09:05] VL: is there like a tell a giveaway that they do or they don’t?
You could.
[00:09:09] SS: It’s just, you can just tell that they don’t, when they don’t know what you do because it’s just so not applicable or it’s oftentimes it’s a. For a different part of the company, which is okay, well obviously you don’t know who I am or what I, what we do. Um, and then if you send me something else, like, I’m gonna know you didn’t re, you know, you have no idea what we do, so I’m just kind of pretty much ignore it from the beginning.
But you can definitely tell and it’s, you can tell when it’s the same note written out to 70 people and they’re just, again, throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.
Sure.
Not that you have to. Write an entirely new email to me. If you’re writing to other people. I know you have other people you write to, although I try not to think about it, but, um, uh, you know, it just, there’s, it, again, you can tell pretty quickly if people know, if people have at least looked at your website, at least have an idea of what you do versus not.
That matters.
[00:10:05] VL: Right? Well, I can’t imagine you ignoring anybody. You’re just so personable. But I can see how that would get like to be really annoying after a while and
[00:10:14] SS: so that’s another good point we can talk about too. So I don’t do it on purpose. I have people who I communicate with pretty regularly and they will send me, Hey, did you see my email from last week?
And I might not have because mm-hmm. Things just go in and out. And plus I’m not a big fan of Outlook, which I thought I would be since we switched recently, but I’m not. And things do get lost. Sure. So again there’s persistence and then there’s, you know, being annoying. But, drop me a note and say, Hey, I wrote, I sent you this note last week.
Did you see it? And maybe, even two or three times bugged me about it because. I may not have. And by the third time I’ll be like, oh shoot, I didn’t see that email. Lemme write this person back and let them know either, you know what the answers to the email and I apologize, I didn’t see your email, but you know, I’m glad you kept bugging me about it.
So,
[00:11:03] VL: right. And I think that’s again where the relationships really matter. Because if that happens with you and I, I text you and say, Hey. What’s going on over there? Can you take a peek at this? Or,
[00:11:12] SS: you know, and at some point you could yell at me, I would take it from you. But other people I would not, never and say, why didn’t you enter my email?
But no, there was a person today who, somebody I work with a lot, and he wrote an email and said, Hey, you know, same exact thing. Like, did you, I just wanted to follow up one more time on this email I sent last week. And I said, oh, I wrote back. I said, sorry, I didn’t see it. It happened to be something we had already covered and I couldn’t, but we have a relationship and he’ll pitch something else some other time, and hopefully I’ll see you at that time. But yeah, it’s, it’s not uncommon that things slip through when you don’t see it the very first time. So don’t get offended and don’t get angry. Just kind of gentle nudge. He’s always welcome.
[00:11:48] VL: Sure. Good to know. Gentle not. Okay. Let’s talk about, and I really wanna get your perspective on this, ’cause I know nothing on this side of it, or very little ’cause I don’t work in it. But inside the newsroom, I know over, gosh, the last, I don’t wanna say how long I’ve been doing this, but well over, you know.
Couple of decades that our whole media landscape has shrunk in all industries and in, and ours of course, as well. And that includes, less staff and reporters and journalists within the newsrooms. So with having smaller editorial teams, do you, does that impact how you rely on outside sources or has that not, or?
[00:12:31] SS: Absolutely. We used to have a larger staff here when we started with a lot more titles. We’ve win Dwindled down to me with, as you mentioned, nine different titles. So, emails get overlooked or I can’t follow up as much as I’d like. I. Yeah, so more helpful you guys on the PR side can be the better.
’cause I don’t have a staff that can help track down stories or can help ideally, we would know every development that happened or every new hire in a company and we would follow up and say, Hey, you just hired this company in your IP firm. Do you have, somebody who wants to write an article for us?
I, we just don’t have the resource to do that anymore that we used to. Sure. Providing me with, news of new hires, new clients, new developments what we can submit, what we can write about for you. That’s very helpful.
[00:13:20] VL: Great. Do you find yourself going back to the same trusted people more?
[00:13:28] SS: Yeah, probably. Yeah. Well, I would think so. Again, same reason resources are limited. And like, I don’t know how many times I’ve emailed you the last week of the month when I’m looking for something. Yeah. So, hey, you know, additional contact.
You haven’t have anything I can fit in here. I’m, I’m short. And there might be two or three people I do that with. Across all the different titles that I have, but that’s where that relationship comes in. And if you, and I know you’re either gonna have something or not, and if not, then fine.
I’ll, just keep looking. But yeah, and I definitely keep turning to the same sources for that because I just don’t have the time to investigate, really, to find new ones that I might not know. I’m sure they’re out there, but I don’t have the time to go find them, especially last minute like that.
[00:14:07] VL: Got it. Okay. That makes sense. And then. We talked about this a little bit with the whole relationship building thing, but you know, instead of always going in the PR pros going in with the ask, like, how important are background conversations? I know you and I schedule time at events to sit down and chat with clients, and it might not always lead to a takeaway or an article development or something that they can do right away, but it’s more of a conversation on background.
Do you find those valuable or.
[00:14:37] SS: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I, I know you talked about legal week. The real value for me there is not only talk about what’s happening and what trends, and we can, we certainly talk about topics and get plenty of articles for the rest of the year from that, but really the real value is just.
Talking to people and making relationships that way. And again, it may not pay off this month for an article, but it may pay off six months or next year when I run into the same people at a conference, Hey, you remember last year we talked about this? What’s going on with that? Or what do you see coming up?
It’s definitely that’s more valuable to me. And, talking about the latest development in your software or the latest trend, you’re gonna write it, but, which is fantastic, don’t get me wrong. But no, really it’s just kind of making those, meeting new people, meeting the same people, continuing those relationships and keeping in touch during the course of the year.
[00:15:23] VL: And that’s probably how we can be helpful to you by bringing those conversations even when there’s not an immediate story.
[00:15:31] SS: Yep. Yeah. Hey, you have five minutes. Can you meet so and so say hello? And a lot of times, I don’t know how many times we’ve just, even in the hallway or just at a, even a formal meeting, whatever, off the cuff conversations, all of a sudden something come, somebody says something, you’re like, well, hey, wait a second.
That’s ties into something I’ve been thinking about. And it does turn into something. So even if you think there’s nothing to offer right away, sometimes things develop in the course of a conversation that do.
[00:15:57] VL: Got it. So let’s go beyond the pitch. I think everybody just hones in on that ask. Right. What is the most helpful thing that we can do besides just pitching you?
[00:16:13] SS: Keep in touch and ask if there’s a specific. Uh, development that I’m working on a different, a certain topic that I’m looking for coverage on. ’cause again, you may have somebody that I don’t know about that you can offer that could help.
Mm-hmm.
With that can write something for us, or at least talk to us about that.
Again, may not be specific for this time, but just keep in touch and say, Hey, what are you what topics are you looking to cover? Are there any topics you’re looking to cover? Is there something that you covered that you want to follow up on? Is there something you’re seeing that nobody’s covering for you yet?
That kind of thing. Just keeping in touch and, keeping that, that line of communication open.
[00:16:50] VL: So what we talked about this before, persistence versus being a pest. What kind of follow up actually feels useful to you versus annoying?
[00:17:03] SS: Again, it’s just such a, it’s it’s just kind of like, I know it when I see it.
Like I said, maybe just a short note, Hey, I sent you this email last week in case you didn’t see it. Here’s what I was, look, here’s what I was telling you, or here’s what I’m pitching, or Here’s what’s going on. Um, or send me a note and say again, Hey, we have a new client. Can I introduce you?
Here’s what they do. Is this gonna be of help for you? Again, developing that relationship, not necessarily an immediate need, but developing that relationship for down the line.
[00:17:37] VL: And do you think that’s a good place to start? Like just, hi, my name is, this is who I represent, or this is what I cover and I see you right about, okay,
[00:17:47] SS: we represent this kind of company these kind of companies.
Here’s the kind of people we rep we can put you in touch with. Here’s the kind of topics that we cover. If it’s a fit, great, let me know and we can talk. Or if it’s not. Then, maybe we come up with something else down the line, but Yeah, exactly. Just straightforward. Hi, my name is so and so. I work for so and so.
We represent clients like this. I don’t have many pictures. I’ve gotten that start with a three paragraph introduction of what AI is and obviously I don’t need that. I’m not gonna read that and I’m not gonna get down to the part where you tell me who you are and what you do. Just right off the top.
Short, sweet, just to the point. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[00:18:24] VL: I find that sometimes, myself included, and some of our clients like to write really verbose pitches. I try not to because I’m a pretty direct person by personality, but it Is that kinda helpful or do you want it just to be, I mean, what, how much is enough?
I guess so you, I know it is topic dependent.
[00:18:44] SS: Of course it does. It is topic dependent, but also goes again to knowing your audience. So. For a general publication that probably works. You may have to explain AI in two paragraphs, but you don’t have to explain it to me. And if you knew what I do, you would know that.
You don’t have to simply, for other things too. Even for marketing the law firm, you know that I’ve been doing this a long time, if you look at it at all. So you don’t have to start with two paragraphs of what you know, um, omnichannel marketing is or whatever it happens to be, right? Like, if I don’t, I will tell you. Say, oh, you mentioned this. I’m not really sure what that is. Or I’ll look it up and let you Yeah. Pretend I knew all along. But but yeah, so it’s that kind of thing, like the long preamble for me isn’t helpful. Yes. Uh, for others it might be for the more general Sure. Type of publications it might be.
Sure. But for me it’s not just tell me what you’re up to.
[00:19:35] VL: Got it. Okay. All right. Let’s talk about what you actually need. You as an editor, so when you’re evaluating somebody, are, is it easy to tell like, Hey, this person really knows their stuff outside of just like the blanket.
I emailed 70 people the same pitch. Email can you evaluate, like, this person really knows what they’re talking about just through a pitch?
[00:19:59] SS: I can tell if they know what, who they’re trying to talk to. Like again if, ah, if they’ve looked into what law term newsletters is and what we do, I can tell pretty much right away more importantly for me than the person.
Apart from like developing a relationship, is the person they’re pitching an article from or a conversation with mm-hmm. What their credentials are. You know, this is Joe Schmo, he’s former Attorney General. He is a former marketing director. He is, such and such, or he’s CEO of this new startup or this company.
Um, that, that adds a lot of weight to it, to the pitch automatically.
[00:20:38] VL: So what gets rejected right off the bat for being too surface level? Is it what you had spoken about before, just not knowing the audience?
[00:20:49] SS: Yeah, it’s like it, it comes across and it seems like it’s a consumer level, got it.
Like this can go to anybody. This can go to my sister-in-law. We’ll know, we’ll be able to understand this, but not my friend who practices IP law or not. My fellow marketing professional people that are friends yeah. I can tell pretty much right away if it’s just too service. And sometimes if it’s an if, sometimes it’s a decent enough topic, I’ll write back and say, I like this topic, but this take on it is too basic for us.
If you can put more analysis behind it and more, again what we need to know as practitioners, then maybe we can do something with it. But as it was pitched, it was too basic. So again, mm-hmm. If it’s an interesting topic, at least I’ll take the time to write back. Mm-hmm. And ask if they can get a little deeper on it.
And sometimes they can, sometimes they can’t.
[00:21:38] VL: Yeah, I think I’ve gotten those types of responses from you and it’s really valuable to know okay, we’re in the ballpark, but we need to, kind of shift our position a little bit on it. Or especially if it’s a topic that’s ai, like really hot,
[00:21:53] SS: um, you know, you’ve gotta be careful, careful and what’s, and really that’s the great example.
’cause it’s, you know, really hot but also overdone at the same time. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, and at some point we move on. Right from, this is the best thing since sliced bread to let’s get at how it’s really being used or whether it really is the best thing since sliced bread. Right. Maybe it’s the best thing since Unsliced bread.
I don’t know if that’s even a thing. Right. But you know, you can definitely tell.
[00:22:20] VL: So let’s talk a little bit about quality versus quantity, which you’ve kind of been talking about the quality side all along here, but quantity side, what? What do you think from your perspective, defines a high value placement or contribution?
[00:22:40] SS: Again, analysis. Mm-hmm. Gimme some analysis, gimme some research. Offer credibility. All those add up. Okay. Into making a high contribution. Sometimes if I’m hurting for space. That doesn’t factor in as much as long as the topic is good, but for the most part, yeah. Yeah that’s what stands out.
[00:23:02] VL: So do you notice when somebody is trying just to crank out a bunch of words versus what is relevant?
Does it get repetitive within the text or
[00:23:10] SS: oh yeah. Oh, it’s very repetitive. It’s a good word. Because sometimes I get pitches that sound like, like it’s a seventh grade book report, but you haven’t read the book. It’s just like saying the same premise over and over in a very basic way.
And well, you don’t really know anything about this topic. You’re just regurgitating words that seem to go together and you’ve repeated it three times and then you know, two paragraphs. So yeah, you don’t really know what’s going on and just, not that I’m gonna totally ignore it, but kind of knocks it down a pick to start.
[00:23:39] VL: Got it. What makes you come back to the same source again and again, like over and over again? Come to Vicki. What, what makes you go back to that same wall?
[00:23:51] SS: Well, it has to be as sweet as you are. Ah, that’s so funny. Um, it’s real liability. It’s. It’s communication, it’s, I, I’m sure other media companies have the same thing, but as you well know too, all too well a LM has a contributor agreement that everybody has to sign.
That lets us publish that. I’m sure everybody else does. And you can imagine that we publish articles by lawyers, so we send these things to lawyers and if you send the same document to a hundred lawyers, you’re gonna get 99 and a half different responses back. So that can be a difficult road to navigate, and you guys are very good at navigating that and communicating to your clients.
A LM long ago decided that they will not change any of that agreement because it’s been. Over by their attorneys and everybody else’s attorneys, and they’ve just decided that this is the best overall agreement we can come up with and we’re not gonna make any changes. So to be able to communicate that to your clients, to whoever’s writing the article, um.
It’s a big help. And not having to fight that battle where we come back, oh, they don’t like C clause four, and now they try to change C clause four. Right. And now I have to tell ’em we can’t change clause four and now it’s down to the wire and they have to decide whether they’re gonna sign or not. I have not had that trouble with any of the stuff that you guys send me, any of the authors you guys send me and other people as well.
So that’s a big help. So stuff like that, all the kind of. Requirements and all the kind of administrative details that we have to go through to smooth those over is a big help.
[00:25:22] VL: Sure, sure. That makes a lot of sense. That would be a big pain point for me. I think if I had to keep going over that again and again.
So hopefully we have most of our clients in line when it comes to the agreement side, so, and I think what you request in the agreement or what you state is pretty reasonable and standard. In my opinion, I have,
[00:25:41] SS: I have one that, that I couldn’t use for one of my newsletters last month for that very reason.
They’re, you know, said, can we wait till next month? And I said, well, is this person gonna change their mind over the next month as to whether they’re gonna sign it or not? And right. The other co-authors with that person are trying to convince them to sign. So maybe they will, maybe they won’t. But yeah, it’s frustrating.
But you know, when the person I’m working with understands. That it needs to be done and that it’s not something we can change. It’s a, again, it’s a big help.
[00:26:11] VL: Sure, sure. Okay, so I wanted to talk about this topic. So we wouldn’t talk about AI so much, but let’s talk about ai. So let’s talk about more the editorial implications with AI tools.
Maybe that would be better than just talking about straight up ai like we always do. So do you think differently about content knowing that it might be AI generated?
[00:26:39] SS: You have to, right? You have to. And a LM on a company wide scale is implementing more AI solutions, more tools that we can use. It just so happens I just don’t use it a lot in my daily work. Mm-hmm. Because again I’ll get an article to publish and I have to read through it myself. I don’t really use AI to summarize it because I’m gonna read through it to edit it anyway. Mm-hmm. I may use AI to revise a headline if I’m not a sure big fan of what it says, I may just try to get some suggestions.
But in, if it’s not written by me, I will definitely turn it around and say, you know. How about this headline instead? I’m not in love with the one you sent in. Can we use this one instead? Or how about pick from, one of these three, whichever, you know, they may prefer. And I’ll use AI sometimes to do that.
Otherwise. I’m trying to think about how to use it every day. I’m trying to think about how it can save me time because you have to it’s, uh, mm-hmm. No doubt. It’s whatever its faults may be, whatever limitations it may end up having. And, we talked about keeping an expert in the loop and all that stuff.
It, there are things that are, is very good at, and I’m trying to take advantage of those things. Summarizing suggesting arguments that you might not have thought of or topics you might not have thought of. Like, I can. I can search and say, Hey, what are the latest developments in just, for example, bankruptcy law over the last two months?
Maybe I should be reaching out to people to see if there’s something to write about there, because I’m not an expert in bankruptcy. I don’t know what the latest developments are unless somebody pitches me here an article about it. So sometimes I will ask that question and to find out, so maybe I can fish for some fresh articles on those topics that I haven’t heard about yet.
Sure. Do you, how do you, but as far as, oh, as far as somebody submitting something that is written by ai, I think I can tell.
[00:28:23] VL: Um, is it because of the M dashes, Steve, which used to be your favorite?
[00:28:27] SS: It’s not. And don’t even, we can do a whole podcast on m dashes if you like. I’d be happy to do that because I’ve been using M Dashes for how many years.
Right. And don’t tell me that it’s ai just because I’m not stopping using M dashes because somebody might think it’s ai. I use them. So I’m a human, at least as far as I know. And that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s AI to me.
[00:28:49] VL: Right. I don’t know how that started. It’s a vicious rumor. It is. It’s terrible.
And I love the M dash. There’s times where you really need it. It is. I hear you.
[00:29:00] SS: I use it all the time. And yeah, again, we could do a whole hour on that, but. Suffice to say. I think I can tell when it’s ai, regardless of M dashes or not, I don’t even have that thought really in my head that that could be ai.
Because of M dashes, I can usually just tell from the writing and connecting sentences. That’s always a big giveaway. Oh, sure. There’s no connecting sentences. There’s no connector. It’s just, almost like law review style. One sentence. One sentence, one sentence, you know. No, no. Really thought. No, interesting words thrown in other than, basic words, no attempt at any kind of personal angle to it. You can. You can just tell.
[00:29:46] VL: Well, that’s enough about ai. I agree. Let’s talk about the human side of working with editors. This sounds so basic and might be silly to some people, but I think sometimes, as we’re going about our professional lives and trying to accomplish everything on our to-do list, and we’re pitching you and reaching out to you, we forget that year.
As you claimed human and not ai. What’s something that we do forget when we have that that you’re a person? Like is there. Is there something that would bring that human element to make you feel more comfortable? Or even if it was like a topic that you were like, eh, but is maybe it’s about the person pitching the topic is what, I guess my question is.
[00:30:34] SS: Yeah. I mean, it’s also to me and I do this and I don’t know if it’s well received or not, but, and maybe it’s a faux pa that I don’t realize, but I start fairly informally, my emails back to people, especially if I kind of know them or want to kind of develop a relationship with. Because I think that shows that you’re human.
And then a little bit of personality. I try to inflect some kind of stupid joke or some kind of stupid comment, you know, even if it’s like, the cliche, like, happy Monday. Oh, is it Monday? Or, yeah. Like even just something like, right. Stupid officey like that. Yeah. But just show that like you’re an actual person writing this.
Yeah. That kind of thing. Just kind of show some personality in the email itself. And again, somewhere down, even, in the pitch itself, again, something like, we know this might not be a fit, but we’re pitching you anyway. This is some kind of indication that you’re a real person.
Throw some Right. Your own personality into it.
[00:31:26] VL: So are those the types of things that make someone enjoyable to work with, not just effective? Are there any other things that. Sweeten the pot for you.
[00:31:38] SS: Again, awareness of what we cover. Just awareness of what we do. Yeah, just say, I know you cover this, I know you know, you like the analysis part of it.
You know, here’s what we can cover. Here’s, this person can offer actual analysis and you know that, that goes a long way as well.
[00:31:54] VL: And then what makes you want to respond to somebody, even if it’s like not a great topic, not time the topic.
[00:32:03] SS: Trying to, you’ve, if you’ve kind of. Let me know what’s available, let me know.
There might be other clients available, might be, let me know that if this isn’t quite a fit, we can tweak it or we can come up with something else down the line, something like that. And I will, well, 99% of the time respond to that and say, okay, well thanks again. You’re right. I agree. We don’t really can’t do really anything with this particular pitch, but keep in touch let’s you know.
Let’s chat. Maybe, even schedule a call and chat for 15 minutes just to say hello and get to know that person. That’s a good way to do it too. And you guys can suggest that too, because I might not, but I would not be opposed to doing that if one of the PR agents that’s trying to kind of develop a relationship just, Hey, we hop on the phone for 50 minutes, let me introduce to myself.
Mm-hmm. Let me tell you what we do. But at least, but in that. In that same note, let me know that you’re at least aware of what we do and what we cover and how we do it. Yeah, and that’s, again, that goes a long way. And then if we spend 15 minutes on a Zoom call that goes even further.
[00:33:05] VL: Great. Uh, you and I used to work with an editor that would always wanna go through article revisions on the phone. And at the time I thought, oh gosh, isn’t it, can’t you just send me an email and redline what you want? Is what, but you know what? I really got a lot out of that and I gleaned some insights that I wouldn’t have got had we done it by email.
So I’m really appreciative of that approach and I think it’s something that has kind of gotten lost with our whole automated society. So pick up the phone people. It’s still, there’s still phones and you can still actually make calls on them.
[00:33:41] SS: So I still have one on my desk. They keep one in, take it away, and I said, no, I want it on my desk.
[00:33:45] VL: Right, right. Yeah, no, that’s, that’s a good point. So if there’s one takeaway from today the best PR strategies are not built necessarily on outreach, but actually on relationships that editors like you value, I hope. Yeah. Do you have any last. Last words advice.
[00:34:07] SS: Yeah, that would be it. Just to, be aware, you know, show some awareness of what we’re up to.
Cold pitches are fine, but still have an idea of what we do and who we’re, who our audience is and what we’re trying to accomplish, what topics we cover, how we cover them, and yeah. And that’s it. Just keep me posted on what’s going on. Again, it doesn’t have to be earth shattering news that we’re gonna want to cover.
Next week or next month, it can be just again, introductions and let’s hop on the phone for 15 minutes. Let’s say hi. Let’s see how we can help each other and develop the relationship from there.
[00:34:39] VL: I love it. I love it. So if you, listeners would like to go deeper on this, I do have an article the New Media Landscape, why Relationships Matter more than Ever.
There’s will be a link at the bottom of the podcast description, and you can also find it on Edge Marketing’s website. Steve, thank you so much for your time today. Pleasure. Appreciate your insights. My pleasure, love chatting with you. I’m glad we kept it professional because you know, we can really get to Kitz Sing and then, you know, so.
All right. Take care everybody.
[00:35:14] SS: Bye everybody. Thank you.
